Hindu Seer XIII
19/11/04 07:40 Filed by Saswat Pattanayak in:
Saswat | Reference
Well, another attempt by me:
My dear comrades,
One of the major concerns: What kinds of questions
are we asking?
None of us who opposed the religious discourses
talked anything about "challenge", or any roadmap to
"eliminate religions" etc. These are as non-issues as
any other rightist rhetoric could be. They were
brought up by a person who has left this group now,
as conitnuation of a logical fallacy.
If AA's "challenge" be taken seriously, the counter
will be something like, "Well, I challenge anyone to
convert the entire world to believe in just one God"
etc etc.. And here is where we miss the boat. Serious
objections by some of us were raised precisely to
oppose such kind of talks which served no real
purpose. Instead what Chinmaya had brought to notice
was an important news of the arrest of an alleged
criminal who appeared to be held with esteem by some
religious fanatics. That was it. Instead of talking
in purely judicial terms and also analyzing the
historiography of religious frauds, the
self-proclaimed 'theists' took it personally!
I dont see why all these talk about "theist",
"pseudo-atheist" etc. And I dont see why someone
should even consider any "challenges" posed by a
person who left the group because he felt the ones
who held contrary views were "barking
relentlessly"...Basically by someone who was so
intellectually challenged so as to leave the group in
a huff after hurling some abuses at people who
differed from the mainstream.
If any so-called "challenges to eliminate religions
(sic)" are accepted, it will sound like the democrats
arguing within the republican framework--dealing with
the later's concerns and trying to see how to face
redundant challenges.
Seems to me that the issues as seen by Chinmaya or
Vulcan or Anup or Sanjib or Saswat are radically
different from how they were perceived by Mar, Man,
AA or An and all other proclaimed "theists".
There lies the misunderstanding.
The "summery of the whole episode" is as one-sided as
it could be, obviously because it has been narrated
by someone who anyway belonged to one school than the
other. Not just in degree, but in type as well.
Wheras one school is raising questions about the
questions, the other is challenging the seekers to
supply with answers else to 'stop barking'. Two
different molds of thoughts here.
In solidarity,
Saswat
___
And here is one from Vulcan, that adorable man!
Since a Reality check is being asked …here it is
for the renewed “AhwaAna”.
But before proceeding please makes sure you won’t
run away like others.
What Manu did five thousand years ago, preachers of
GOD still trying to continue & maintain it.
Manu made Hindu society into four classes. There is
no mobility. You are born a brahmin, that is the
only way to be a brahmin. And that is the highest
society, the topmost class. Then number two is the
warriors, the kings . the Khyatriyas. But you are
born in that caste, it is not a question that you
can move. Then third is the class of the vaishyas,
the business people; you are born in it. And the
fourth is the sudras, the untouchables. All are
born into their caste. That's why, until
Christianity started converting so many Hindus,
particularly the sudras, who were ready, very
willing to become Christians, because at least they
would be touchable. Amongst Hindus, sudras are
untouchable, and there is no way to get out of the
structure.For your whole life you have to remain
the same as your forefathers remained for five
thousand years. For five thousand years there has
been a stratified society. If somebody is a
shoemaker, his family has been making shoes for
five thousand years. He cannot do any other work,
he cannot enter into any other profession. That is
not allowed. Hindus were not a converting religion,
because the great question was, if you convert
somebody, in what class are you going to put the
person? Christianity is a converting religion
because it has no classification; you simply become
a Christian. If Catholics convert you, you become a
Catholic; if Protestants convert you, you become a
Protestant. But in Hinduism you cannot be
converted, for the simple reason: Where will you
put the converted ? Brahmins won't allow you, and
you would not like to be put with the sudras, the
untouchables. So then what is the point of coming
to a religion where you will not be even touched?
Even your shadow will be untouchable. And a brahmin
has to take a bath if the shadow of a sudra falls
on him. The sudra has not touched him, but his
shadow is also untouchable. Being the ancient most
religion, still Hinduism has not been spreading; it
has been shrinking. Buddhism spread all over Asia,
and it is only twenty-five centuries old. Hinduism
is at least ten thousand years old, or more, but it
could not spread, for the simple reason that birth
is decisive. You can be a Hindu only by birth, just
as you can be a Jew only by birth and these are the
two most ancient religions.
But if you carefully notice & observe, you will
find now the society is changing, people are
marrying from different caste to caste , Govt is
making some reservation to uplift the
untouchable/backward classes, Restriction for sudra
going to temple is removing, Untouchably is slowly
disappearing etc., etc. Now hindus living &
earning their daily bread outside Orissa &
India eating holy cow meat, drinking holy madhus in
party, listening disco,pop,rap (instead of
classical hindu music) in a cultural festivals.Even
now a days,does not bother to watch latest
bollywood movies, with friends & families
together, And these people don't mind to go &
lecture in a church, but when questioned leaving
this forum on frustation.After all people like
highest religious leader getting arrested like
local goondas too
.And the most surprising
is other preachers of GOD ( like Imam
etc) coming forward in support of him.
Not just to show harmony but to make
sure they should not face the similar
consequence when the opposition party
comes to power.
So what the preachers of GOD are saying about the
happening of changes without a road maps/plans ? Do
they need further plans/roadmaps etc on this
regard? And why should a branded atheist respond to
the call of a theist where as the Challenger run
away from the forum when his/her own faith/belief
of religion is sacked by branded atheist(s).
So I dare & challenge all these preachers of
GOD to stop these happening of changes or spread
Hinduism as the only Religion or merge all the
Religions into one? Which ever you think best
suited for you. But don't worry I'll not run away
if you do not accept my challenge either, because I
have enough confidence that you can’t do that
rather will slowly accept & adapt to these
happening of changes like the Internet, which is
materialistic in nature.
Regards
JENA
Tags: Saswat, Hinduism, Orissa, India